As we celebrate The Climate Pledge’s fifth anniversary this month, we caught up with key leaders at some of our signatory and partner companies to learn about their progress and their vision for the climate future.

To date, credible carbon-neutralization solutions and technologies have lagged behind demand. But that’s changing quickly. When Amazon couldn’t find the right nature-based solutions, it worked quickly to create them, laying the foundation to scale its carbon neutralization initiatives.

Our conversation with Jamey Mulligan, Amazon’s Head of Carbon Neutralization Science and Strategy:

The Climate Pledge: Can you tell us about what you do, and how that contributes to Amazon’s larger climate goals?

Mulligan: I lead carbon neutralization for Amazon, which includes deforestation reduction, reforestation, and carbon removal technologies like direct air capture. We know that to reach our climate goals, we must both decarbonize corporate carbon footprints and neutralize remaining emissions. My small team focuses on that second part of the equation: mitigating climate change outside of the value chain.

While our goal is to neutralize any emissions that we can’t reduce from our value chain by 2040, we also take a broad view. We want to inspire global climate action and build the foundation for credible neutralization initiatives at scale.

The Climate Pledge: Those are big goals! What’s your strategy for reaching them?

Mulligan: We break our strategy down into three key areas. Collectively, our first priority should be to help halt tropical deforestation. The second is restoring forests that we’ve already lost, and sequestering carbon in the process. And finally, we know that we’re going to need technologies that accelerate the removal of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and store it, so we’re focused on investing in and developing direct air capture projects that can do that.

The Climate Pledge: Why is halting tropical deforestation such an urgent priority?

Mulligan: According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, there is basically no path to achieving the Paris Agreement targets without halting tropical deforestation. Trees capture carbon from the atmosphere as they grow, and tropical rainforests hold more carbon than any other kind of forest. When forests are cleared to make way for agriculture, that carbon is released back into the atmosphere. If tropical deforestation were a country, it would be the third largest carbon emitter after China and the United States.

The Climate Pledge: How does your team focus on addressing the root causes of deforestation?

Mulligan: Historically, companies seeking to be part of the solution to deforestation have supported projects that work directly with local communities to protect specific areas of intact forest. These efforts are important, but we recognized from the outset that if the objective is to actually help halt tropical deforestation, rather than only protect special areas, we need a more holistic approach. We also recognized that the levers to control deforestation across entire landscapes—like legal protections for the forest, enforcement of those protections, recognition of indigenous rights, better agricultural policies, and sustainable economic development—are actually public sector levers. In other words, we need governments in tropical forest countries to lead the charge, and they need financial resources to be successful.

A few years ago Amazon banded together with the governments of Norway, the United Kingdom, and the United States, and other Pledge signatories, to create the Lowering Emissions by Accelerating Forest Finance (LEAF) Coalition. LEAF pledges financing to tropical forest governments for forest protection. When a country or large state is successful in reducing deforestation across their jurisdiction, they can access funds from LEAF to invest in sustainable economic development.

Amazon has been working in particular with the state of Pará, Brazil, which is one of the largest states in the Brazilian Amazon rainforest. It’s twice the size of France, and accounts for about 10–13% of global deforestation. One of the main drivers of deforestation in Pará is land speculation—the clearing of public forest as a means to lay claim to the underlying land. In Pará, the government now plans to reclaim public land that’s been illegally cleared and designate it specifically for the purpose of reforestation, which not only helps to restore the landscape and sequester more carbon, but also sends a strong message to land speculators. We’re working with the government there to pair this effort with investments that provide more sustainable livelihoods for the families in neighboring areas.

The Climate Pledge: Halting and ultimately reversing deforestation will require collaboration between private businesses and governments. What’s the role that businesses can and should play, together and alongside local governments?

Mulligan: Before joining Amazon, during the Obama administration, I worked in the Office of Management & Budget, which is part of the White House apparatus. At that time, everyone expected that the real action on climate policy was going to happen in the halls of government. Government policy remains critical, but it has become clearer than ever in the years since that the private sector needs to act as well. Amazon co-founding The Climate Pledge was one of those watershed moments where you have the private sector acting more decisively and more confidently when it comes to progress on climate change.

The network benefits for businesses are really profound. Take, for example, the carbon credit market. It’s fragmented, opaque, and complex. Working together with other companies allows us to shape new policy solutions, share technical expertise, and navigate it with much greater speed and ease.

The Climate Pledge: What have been the results of your work thus far, and what’s ahead?

Mulligan: We feel like we’re really gaining momentum, and the results are starting to show. Deforestation rates in Brazil are down by half year-over-year—that’s due to leadership by policymakers in Brazil, and now initiatives like the LEAF Coalition have a critical role to play in supporting and sustaining that progress.

As we look to the future, we have the opportunity to both rethink problems with a fresh perspective and rethink what the solution is going to look like. We’re focused. We’re making big bets where we really think we can break through.

Learn more about Amazon’s sustainability work here.